Quantity Question

[Pristine Pigs]

Ok.................second time round I am not going to go blundering in and end up having to figure things out as I go.
So I know my breed (hence why I am here), I kinda know what I need to get etc.....................but my question is this...........realisticly what is the bear minimum pig wise I would need to run a successful stud and achive good quality show pigs?

Thing is I live back at home and as a result pay half my mums rent (she claims her half). Now a lot depends on if we get a bonus in Feb, which mean I can make some adjustments so as I pay all the rent (the council will pay their part into my account. This mean the landlord has less to "moan" about because the rent comes from two different places. This also mean I feel more comfortable as a happy landlord means we get left alone.

But I don't want to end up with a huge amount of pigs like I did last time. And as I know there are some established names on here I though I would ask the question.

[Crafty Cavies]

why dont you just start off with a couple of trios to begin with and see how you get on, depending if you just want the fox or tan in the one colour though, i started of with the fox in black now i have them in lilac and choc, pretty addictive arnt they lol .  nickyx

[Przibram Stud]

I would say try and get two pairs/trios to start with and take things from there.  Up until 2008 all my cavies moved 4 times/year from Bristol to Lancashire.  This meant that I had to keep a lid on numbers.  At that time I had in the region of 3 boars, 8 sows and then a few youngsters.  The main thing is to be very selective on which babies you keep.  I let go quite a number of decent baby breeding sows and boars only stayed if they were exceptional.  They did well at local show level and Harrogate 2009 was my first big-show where they far exceeded my expectations.

If you want to keep a small, sucessfull stud then I think the key is to stick to one variety (or two very complementary) try and only retain babies that are a step forward compared to their parents.  The biggest problems is that any disease/toxaemia/aborted litters can really set you back as you dont have that reserve of stock to rely on.

To give you an idea, currently I have:
5 BT Breeding Boars (2 show), 1 Self Choc Boar, 1 Choc Tan Boar
9 Adult BT Sows (2 retired, 2 Show), 1 adult Choc tan sow, 2 adult self-black sows
7 5-8 BT Sows (3 Show)
6 u-5 BT Sows (2 Show), 1 u-5 Choc Tan Sow

Hope that helps, and good to see you back thinking about cavies!
Rachael

[Pristine Pigs]

Thanks Rachael that helps a lot. If I take the "chocs" out of your list it kind of gives me the amount I was hoping as my upper limit.

I am only planning to start out with a trio (hint hint Nicky) and go from there.

I just want to get things right from the start this time and not end up flooded like I did last time.

Obviously there are going to be times when numbers go up due to bubs in the shed, but 30 ish was about the number I was hoping to hear.

[Przibram Stud]

I'd say that a stud of 30 is completely do-able.  The other thing to be careful of is to plan litters so you have a steady trickle of youngsters comming through and not a huge glut at one time.

Old retired pigs can quickly take up a lot of room.  My breeding boars are used throughout their life.  The only reason I would stop using one would be if he were loosing condition severely but I haven't had that problem.

I know some fox/tan breeders have problems with sows carrying such condition that they can only be bred once/twice very early on in their lives.  Touch wood, mine seem to remain fertile and suffficiently fit that they continue breeding up to around 3 (3/4 litters) without any trouble.  If I find myself in the posistion of having lots of adult sows, I sometimes let 1 or 2 year old sows go as part of a trio to give someone a good starting point (and looking forward, to reduce the number of oldies in the future).

I have some people (through work mostly) who like to take on pairs of oldies which helps keep numbers down and I know they're going to a 5* home.  Having said that there are certain oldies who stay with me till the end as I get very attatched to them.

We're moving house at the end of the month so I expect numbers to rocket then when I have more cage space available!

Happy planning, It would be nice to get some of your "line" back through Nicky.
Rachael

[Pristine Pigs]

I am looking forward to getting back into it. Although I have a lot of planning to do. I need a new shed plus need to put a new conceret base down (there was an issue with rats squatting under the shed when I moved in. Plus I would need to sort out waste disposal.

I am thinking for this year to just to a few shows and see how things are. Plus get at least a couple of pigs that I can "play" with so I can get a feel for things again.

My biggest stumbling blocks are my family............my mum is not sure she wants animals in the back garden (but hey I do pay half the rent) and my sister is convinced I won't have time (but she did say if I did it I should only keep a few and not the huge numbers I had before).

[Tartuffe]

They do have a habit of creeping up if you arent REALLY strict!
Black Tan Boars
I have 5 (2 my line, 2 rachael and a new chap from Jimmy - called 'Ocheye' as he is a hail back to my original scottish line)  i show one of my line, the rest work for their keep.

Beige tan Boars
I have two beige tan boars (father and son) and i dont plan to run on any more unless the newest boar babies are better in the looks dept than them.  I had to be really careful and stern with myself with the first lot of beige tans born as I had 7 boars in total born from the first 4 litters. I kept back two (one has since gone to Steve) and let the rest go as pets. both beige tan boars are shown and work at the same time.

Black Tan Sows
I have one retired show sow, 4 tan breeding sows (1 littered, 3 yet to litter for first time) and two U5 tan sows. 1 dilute tan sow (littered) and I have a new litter of 3 babies with two sows and a boar at the moment (but you know how that can change!)

Beige Tan Sows
I have two adult tan sows (one retired and 1 that has littered) 1 5/8 tan sow and 4 beige self sows who are in various stages of pregnancy or rearing young that have produced a number of tan babies that I darent even sex yet! I do not show any of the beige tans sows currently as I needed to get the numbers up.

I let two trios and a pair of black tans go to Mike last year to start him up.

I am just about to introduce a few self black sows to my black tan boar as this is something that Ive not done before.

if you are going to stick to the black tans (good choice) then I think 12 tops is a good number. (3 boars 9 sows)....wish i'd stuck to my own advice though!

[Pristine Pigs]

I would love to have as few as 12 but I think it may end up being a few more. Mind you my sister did tell me to have 10 so you number is not far off that Nicky.

[Porquinho]

Hi,

I think that for a good start one must have at least 5 pigs of a breed, 2 unrelated boars and 3 sows. Less than that you soon end up having problems putting couples together without them being too close related. 
Of course you'll want to keep one or the other promising youngster from your breeding and before you notice it you'll have doubled the numbers ;o)
As Nicky says, you have to control yourself and be very strict about choosings the pigs that stay.

Unfortunatly I'm not that strict and I'm getting very attached to my piggies, so that most of them stay with me to the end (still have my first 2 homebred Tans that were born in Nov 2004 and only had 2 litters each).

Verena

[Pristine Pigs]

I know what you mean, I think that is why I ended up with so many pigs last time and I guess in a way I learnt the hard way how quickly things can get out of control.

That is why I want to make sure I am set up correctly and very strict with myself this time round 

[nortnewydd]

I have

1 DEW boar, 3 unrelated sows and 2 of his u 5/8 daughters. (one to show and one to breed)

1 Lilac fox boar and his 9 week old daughter

2 adult Lilac tan sows and one of their lilac tan (baby) daughters

I have bought a new Lilac tan boar and am waiting for him to arrive!!

I have 1 lilac otter sow 5/8

and I have just purchased 3 choc self piggers, 1 boar and 2 sows....

The plan is to slowly do;

DEW, Lilac Fox & Tan and Choc Fox & Tan and just maybe some biege piggers could creep into my shed....... nobody would notice....

I would not have any more than 30 plus babies at any one time xx

[Pristine Pigs]

Thanks for the input guys. It gives me an idea of how many people are keeping (and getting results with).
Have to keep numbers low as my mum ios not to keen on me getting back into the pigs.